“I had an impact – that’s what counts”

Interview of ICRC President Peter Maurer*  conducted by Barbara Lüthi, SRF (Swiss Radio and Television), 11 August 2022

(18 August 2022) Peter Maurer’s presidency at the «International Committee of the Red Cross» (ICRC) was marked by many crises: the Syrian war, the persecution of the Rohingya in Myanmar, Afghanistan and Ukraine. In this interview, he takes a look back.

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SRF: Peter Maurer, which feeling prevails after these ten years?

Peter Maurer: I feel a great sense of satisfaction about what I have been able to do. And I am convinced that now is the right moment to leave. But I have also met many people during this time and had many good talks.

That’s why melancholy is also present. Overall, I look back and have the impression that we did not miss any significant international conflict – that it was a good time for the ICRC.

Are you a different person than you were ten years ago?

I think so, that dealing with and also experiencing the stark effects of conflict changes you – especially when you see it over and over again and are in the middle of it yourself. What surprised me: At some point I realised that it’s almost easier when you experience it yourself than when you only see the images in the media.

When you travel to the war zones and talk to the people, the horror takes on different proportions. It’s bad too, but you can contextualise it better. When you only see the pictures, your brain goes crazy. The real horror is less bad than the imagined horror.

Part of your job is to talk and negotiate with all the warring parties. This impartiality is also repeatedly criticised. How do you talk to people who are involved in a breach of international law?

First of all, you have to listen. You have to understand what the driving forces are. How did we get to where we are? You also have to have empathy with warring parties, even if it’s difficult.

If you see in your interlocutor only the rights violator, the rapist, the terrorist, you are in a logic of stigmatisation. You have to get out of that logic, otherwise you‘re not a credible, neutral intermediary.

When you talk to all sides and try to build some understanding, you also come up with ideas about what the respective sides could do to start talking to each other again. But understanding doesn’t mean apologising. It’s important to keep it apart.

This approach is not always accepted, as we have seen again and again, especially recently: Everyone always demands positions and understands neutrality as despondency. But neutrality is a practical principle that helps you to do this work.

In such a conversation, how do you recognise that what you are saying is really getting through to your counterpart?

The interesting moments are when the other person says something that wasn’t intended. When you notice that an extra element of honesty comes in, or a statement that wasn’t in the “talking points” or “briefing”. Sudden emotional reactions are indicators that you are about to change the climate of the conversation.

These are early signs of trust building. This also has to do with trying to be open and honest yourself and to differentiate. This does not mean that I do not talk about violations of international humanitarian law. But I also always try to classify. Over time, you get a sense of how to create such fractures.

Where do you learn that? Hardly in diplomatic school?

It’s not by chance that diplomacy is both a profession and an art. Because it is a profession, certain things can be learned. Others are in the realm of instinct, intuition, sensing moods. For that, you need experience.

You have to learn, experience, and make mistakes – realise you’ve misread the mood in the room. This process has been the most interesting for me in the last ten years, but also before that as a diplomat. It has always fascinated me. And it is also the essence of what we are trying to do in the ICRC.

Which conversation has remained in your memory because you were able to turn something around, to take a step forward?

In all modesty, I would like to say that there were relatively many of them.

When you spoke to Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, in Ukraine in March, what did you achieve there?

If you look at what we as the ICRC are doing in Ukraine today: in June, we exchanged fallen soldiers between the two warring parties for the first time. We have visited prisoners, in areas controlled by Russia and Ukraine. We were able to settle over a thousand missing persons reports, through contact with Russian and Ukrainian authorities.

These are modest steps when you look at the overall problem. But they are important progress that could not be made if there were not these breaks in the talks and if there was no basis of trust.

And yet you are often condemned in public for handshakes with people like Lavrov, Assad or Putin.

You have to live with that. What the public perceives is not so important. Our goal is to make a difference in the lives of those affected, whether they are soldiers or civilians. As long as we have the recognition and understanding of these people and also the legitimacy from the respective warring parties, that’s enough.

I understand that people want to take sides and take a position. But those are two different ways of looking at the world. I have now played the role of a neutral intermediary for ten years.

That doesn’t mean that I’m not also a political person who likes to make things clearer or more explicit. But this is about functions. And it has been shown that the function of ICRC president has an impact. That’s what counts.

* As President of the ICRC, Peter Maurer leads some 20,000 staff in over 100 countries. The ICRC's priority countries and regions are Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Yemen, Syria, the Sahel and, since the beginning of the war, Ukraine. Before his election as ICRC President in October 2011, Peter Maurer worked for many years as a diplomat for the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs (FDFA). Among other things, he was Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Switzerland to the UN in New York from 2004 to 2010 and subsequently headed the Political Directorate of the FDFA. After his resignation at the end of September, he will take over the presidency of the “Basel Institute of Governance”, which is engaged worldwide in the fight against corruption and economic crime.

Source: https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/ikrk-chef-maurer---ich-hatte-wirkung---das-ist--was-zaehlt-/47819032

This content was published on 11 August 2022. Interview Barbara Lüthi, SRF.

(Translation “Swiss Standpoint”)